Sunday, July 3, 2011
16337--And the Pursuit of Happiness
Also, the stance that government should not be in the marriage licence business at all is not helpful to the millions of us who are not getting the rights that go with those marriage licences. These rights are particularly important when we are raising children and inheritance and custody are in play. I have no custody rights to my daughter, for instance, and Tamara's will stating that she wants our daughter in my custody if Tamara dies is useless in Oklahoma.
One more thing and then I'll stop: Will, your reluctance to call it "marriage" is just avoiding the argument. Our opponents say, "A marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman." We respond, "We would like to broaden the definition." Our opponents reply, "A marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman" over and over and over again. That's not an argument, it's a tautology. What I believe you are saying is, a "real" marriage is between a man and a woman, and the you gays are just playing house. It's demeaning, and would be only insulting if it didn't have so many legal and practical consequences.
Phoenix: So much for states respecting each other's laws. That really shouldn't hold up. That is to say that your custody rights should hold up, just like when the courts decreed that Dred Scott didn't stop being a slave just because his master transported him into a free state. Of course, I guess we shouldn't expect too much rationality from people who think that people are going to rush out to marry box turtles unless prohibited by law. That sounds like someone with some odd brain wiring. Whether he was right or not, though, it still sounds like the issue of people in government making lame excuses to infantilize the public as a pretext to usurp our rights. Those people probably argued for your rights when you were in the womb and then turned on you when you got old enough to not use them "right". I disagree with that, Jill, and I disagree with you or Tamara or anyone else having to go through any other source to declare that we are deserving of rights. I was born with them and I have no intention of surrendering them to anyone without the best fight I can offer.
Jill: Phoenix, I appreciate your response. I don't believe that my rights originate from the majority of people agreeing on what my rights are. The majority of Oklahomans are just fine with me not being able to have rights to our daughter. But, my rights are federal, and i believe I should be able to have those rights even over the kicks and screams of the majority of my neighbors. In my experience, and my reading of history, "state's rights" are just another way of keeping a minority of people in their place, and that place is never of one of equality .
Phoenix: The governments are bankrupt, financially and morally. Without them, you still remain. Your rights are yours because you're a person. Government's job is to protect those rights, not to define them. State or federal I don't trust either that's not respecting our rights and doing what we tell it.
William: Jill, I'm all for broadening the "definition" of marriage in the legal if that's the only recourse for gay couples to enjoy all of the rights that they should have just like anyone else. Please don't think that I'm against "gay marriage", cause I'm not. I'm not offended by the proposition at all. You know me: Mr. Legalize everything as long as it doesn't directly violate someone's Person, Property, or Liberty.
Phoenix, good point. Individuals are born with all the rights (unalienable) once they arrive here from the womb. Govt does NOT give us any rights and the Constitution is supposed to be a contract to define the boundaries of govt and is a reminder of rights we are BORN with. I know many people who MISTAKENLY think the Constitution GIVES them their rights......uh, uh. That's incorrect.
As you can see: not a group that will ever be accused of walking away from the negotiating table. By all means, if anyone else has an opinion to add to this, do leave a comment. Your voice is welcome.